Graf Canada runs a shady business

[djinferno 2]

I got a pair of 703's back in may, they where defective. Graf unsuccesfuly repaired em "real buch job", now the skates are at my LHS.... Graf now claims after repairing em under warranty that the skate replacement is not covered under warranty......

Heres the letter a got from Mike Hill President at Graf:

Dear Mr. ,

The situation regarding your Graf model 703 skates was brought to my attention on July 30, 2004 by our Warranty Manager, Mr. Todd Buhler and our Executive Vice President, Mr. Steve Feick. I have had a chance to review the complete correspondence and find that, on the basis of this information, there is no valid claim for warranty replacement and as such, none will be provided.

As for your continued threats of legal action in order to pursue this claim, we find such threats to be quite uncalled for and frankly, quite immature; however, should you choose this course of action we would certainly be glad to meet you in court. I am a lawyer and will be present in court if and when such action is brought before a court of law. Further, if you attempt to disparage our products in a manner we believe to be unfair you may be assured that you will be on the other end of the lawsuit. Govern yourself accordingly

Regards,

GRAF Canada Ltd.

Does this sound fair to you? Secondly, what should I do to resolve this issue?

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Anyway, what exactly was wrong with them, and what did they repair? I think you should be a little more detailed. Are you going through with the lawsuit?

Honestly I don't know why they didn't just cut their losses and give you another pair of skates...

[wristshot19 0]

Before answering it might be good to know exactly what was wrong with the skates, what they did to try to fix the problem (pictures if possible of the end result), and what your emails to them may have been. If you have "threatened" them in any sort of non-constructive way then I can understand their response to your threats. It helps to know the story from top to bottom first.

In any case, I never had a single problem with BNH with any returns that I have had initiated with them. Their customer service reps. were always willing to take my call and even went as far as asking my opinions of ways they could make the product better. It just showed that they cared about their products and the people using them.

[djinferno 2]

ok heres a list of my emails with dates... they all had no responses, only phone conversations... Keep in mind that I'm a french guy so the english is not good....

Lets also keep in mind that I was upset while doing these cause i felted ignored

here are pics

First E-Mail To Todd (Warranty guy)

This E-mail is just to confirm what we talked about today, the skate that is defective is the right skate.....

I`ve only skated on em twice, I would like the pair to be replaced please.... this is my birthday present! I feel like i've waited long enough for this problem to be resolved, I also feel like the only way I will be satisfied now is if there replaced.

I've head nothing but good things from graf owners and I would not want to change that opinion based on this problem, I trust that even if you can't see the problem, that with the word of your authorized dealer (DUGUAY SPORT) telling you that they can clearly see the problem (4 employees), that the pair will be replaced....

the right skate looks like this front view below (Try to look at them from the top as if you had them in your feet)

-----------

\

Skate model 703 in a 7.5 Regular please

Thank you,

Second E-Mail To Todd (Warranty guy)

To: tBuhler@grafcanada.com

Subject: Thank you for returning my skates...

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 23:35:19 -0400

Hi Todd, It's me again Sacha

I'd like to thank you for returning me my skates (for this the second time) and actually doing work to it this time. There's only two problems, after playing on them tonight, they still don't feel right, you basically took off the Cobra blade holder and widen the holes to be enable you to align the holder on the skate..... there are two problems with that, you did correct the alignment (that you finally admitted was crooked in the documentation you sent back) but you actually made it impossible for me to replace the holder without going thru the pain of modifying em again witch to me is unacceptable since you now you made the holder more prone to breaking. Also, you forgot that the cause of the blade not being strait was the boot floor it's self being crooked, the skate no feels unbalanced, better but still wrong.

Anyways, you've heard me tell you this before and I feel like you are not trying to resolve this issue but more trying to patch it and hope this goes away,, you've made me go thru your process of going to a local hockey shop that deals with Graf Canada and making them inspect the problem and send you the skates witch is an embarrassment for me since you knew that the skates had been purchased by my brother that lives in an other city and that sent them to me for my birthday, May 2004. You actually sent me the skates back to the shop without even doing nothing to em and telling me on the phone that my foot was the problem when the people from the shop had clearly told you that there

was a problem.....

I will ask you again, for the third time to replace the skates, or at the least the faulty skate, i even offered to pay for the the one skate

to be replaced (even if i don't feel i should) with no result. I feel like i'm being cheated by Graf Canada and that you not returning my E-Mails makes me feel like your ignoring me. I've took enough embarrassment at my local hockey dealer with this issue and waited long

enough for a resolution, I will take any legal action necessary to get what I feel i deserve as a consumer, the right to be satisfied.

I Hope I hear from you sooner then later Mr. Buhler

Thank you,

Third E-Mail Anne Gibson(Vice President)

To: Anne Gibson

Subject: Problem with my skates

Hi, my name is Sacha from Ottawa

If you havent heard of me yet, I'm a Graf customer having a major issue with your warranty department. This problem has been ongoing for the past month and a half, with the new season ariving, I wish to be contacted as soon as possible for a resolution.

In my last phone conversation with Todd Buhler (known to me as the warranty guy), I had asked for the skates to be replaced. He promptly sent a return number only to send back the same skate altered and faulty wich he first clamed had no problem at all. Bellow are two e-mails sent by me that i've received no answer from.

I feel i've whaited long enought for this problem to be sorted out. If i'm ignored any longer, I will not hesitate to take legal action to be compensated.

Thank you for your time, hoping this issue can finally be resoved...

[djinferno 2]

Are you going through with the lawsuit?

Honestly I don't know why they didn't just cut their losses and give you another pair of skates...

I got to go to small claims court and that takes over a year...

[Chadd 916]

Once you threaten legal action, a lot of people stop wanting to help. That said, it sounds like they've been jerking you around and yet another good reason to avoid Graf. Their quality has gone to hell anyway.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

I'd love to see pics. Do you have the skates in your possession?

[Brandonov22 0]

The store that I work for has also had some issues with Graf. We placed an order for the new G series and it was never shipped in full. Also, when I first started working there, we had a booking order arrive in late November '02, when the ship date was February '02. I've had a terrible time trying to get skates for my customers from the company. I like the skates, but hate dealing with the company. Just my two cents...I'm sorry if this comes off as "bashing Graf."

[Buzz_LightBeer 963]

we had a booking order arrive in late November '02, when the ship date was February '02.

theres a term for that, its "Eagle"

[Brandonov22 0]

true...Eagle has had that problem too. It takes forever to get stuff from them. I hate turning away customers who want something we dont have because I know Eagle cant get it to them when they want it.

Sorry...shouldn't have gotten off topic.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

I've only had an account with Graf Canada for about 9 months, however I have not had any problems with them. They ship 3-day on their skates and fill-ins come quick.

Their QC on the other hand...

[Brandonov22 0]

JR...no problem on fill-in "G" series skates? Just wondering cause we're having some problems.

Just so everone knows though...their sales rep that we have is awesome.

[djinferno 2]

I'd love to see pics. 

i do have pics, i don't know where to post em

Do you have the skates in your possession?

the skates are at my LHS

[mack 44]

Send them to JR, he'll Sipowicz his way into the problem.

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Didn't carry G-series...I imagine it'd be a pain to fill.

Send them to jboucicaut@modsquadhockey.com

[djinferno 2]

Send them to jboucicaut@modsquadhockey.com

DONE...

Also sent to your Yahoo account

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

I'll put them up here when I receive them.

[djinferno 2]

If you could, I'd like to see it too.  I do a ton of skate work.  If you want, send it to:

TravelerBJSL22@yahoo.com

sent...

The problem is that the hole boot is warped from the floor, when you put the boot, it digs into your ancle, the holder is curved towards the inside....

To prove this my LHS tried to fit a tuuk without drilling and he sain that it he allines the front part of the boot, the heel part does not even fall on the holder... so who ever put the holder on had to bend it to make it fit...

Now I might be considerd as crazy but not a Authorized Graf Retailers...

Plus i've ben wearing graf 703 for the past 2 years, I just received these cause I grew and with the G series out, the price on the 700 series dropped, so these skates are not new to me in terms of feel

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

No pics yet.

I just hope that TPS doesn't go down the shitter now...

[Brandonov22 0]

If everything falls through with Graf, about the only thing you can do is try to put a Tuuk, or another type holder on it. The rivet holes dont line up completly, so you can drill through the outsole and make the holder line up. I've done it many times before.

[djinferno 2]

If everything falls through with Graf, about the only thing you can do is try to put a Tuuk, or another type holder on it.  The rivet holes dont line up completly, so you can drill through the outsole and make the holder line up.  I've done it many times before.

we tried already, if you line-up the front part of any holder, the back outer holes line up in the middle hot the heel.... and vice versa... when you stand in the skates, this is what it looks like from under | \ and the holder is bent and the blade is waved cause of this

JR Boucicaut try your yahoo, Brandonov22 got em...

[Brandonov22 0]

The rivet holes dont always line up. You have to drill to make it work. It voids the warranty to put different holders/runners on skates, but if you're fighting with Graf about it, then what's the difference? NHL'ers do it all the time. YOur local hockey shop should be able to do it, or I can.

[djinferno 2]

The rivet holes dont always line up. You have to drill to make it work. It voids the warranty to put different holders/runners on skates, but if you're fighting with Graf about it, then what's the difference? NHL'ers do it all the time. YOur local hockey shop should be able to do it, or I can.

OK if I'm telling you that the skate is warrep, what makes you think that an other holder will fix the problem.... Read again, the skate (boot part not the holder) is warped even if you put any holder, what will you do about the fact that the boot is warrep? you seem to forget that if I put the skates with no holders (and we did try this) the left skate is fine and the right one is warred....

Now please stop talking about holders, thats not the issue here, your sounding like graf.... we even askd them to put a tuuk on and they said no, they are not denying the problem, they just don't want to replace em...

[JR Boucicaut 3760]

Wow...that's pretty bad. Not even close.

If he is going through with the lawsuit, then let them be. However, it can be repaired.

Tell you what, cover the shipping and I will repair them, free of charge. I hate to see someone get screwed over. I'd have to blast them with some heat...

[djinferno 2]

Wow...that's pretty bad. Not even close.

If he is going through with the lawsuit, then let them be. However, it can be repaired.

Tell you what, cover the shipping and I will repair them, free of charge. I hate to see someone get screwed over. I'd have to blast them with some heat...

Thank you but my LHS already determined that the skate was not repairable, If it was, I would not go thru all this problem, my LHS is a Graf retailer so I don't think he would be bullshiting Graf over one pair of skates....

to repair em, you' have to unstitch the hole boot, restitch then replace the sole... can you do that?