Bauer ONE## goalie skate problems?

[Netminder32 32]

I recently received a brand new pair of ONE100LE goalie skates as a birthday present from my wife and parents. Now from that statement most of you are probably thinking "great wife, great parents"... However, I experienced something I've never encountered from new skates before. They were the correct size, 8.5EE (same as my current XXX's, previous 3000's, and various RBK/CCM/Heaton skates I've worn over the years), they were professionally profiled, they were professionally baked and they were supposed to be the Cadillac of skates according to early reports BUT they caused me such EXTREME foot pain I could barely even stand in them by the completion of a game. The end result... an over $750 investment in new skates just sold on eBay for $350 putting a whopping $280 back in my pocket after fees. Figured I should share my experience before this happens to anyone else.

Now having read previous reports from people stating how great they were I initially thought "it must just be me". But I'm seeing a new trend starting. 1) Other goalies on the goalie store board just started to speak up and share their stories of similar experience and 2) I just heard on Hockey Night In Canada, Henrik Lundqvist, one of Bauer's poster boy goaltenders, just went through the same thing with a new pair of ONE100's.

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/slapshot/rangers_lundqvist_says_skate_issue_vW4okxARbOEUYHRAs3N6LN

And it doesn't appear to be linked to just the ONE100. There are other goalies posting about foot pain in the ONE80 and ONE60 skates as well.

Which makes me wonder, has anyone else here on MSH experienced this as well?

[lukejameslarson 5]

I have the One60s in 9.5EE. The sizing seems odd to me, because I normally wear a 12 shoe, and a 10.5EE in my One95 player skates.

I haven't experienced any pain in the skates at all though. As far as I'm concerned, they are super comfortable. The only complaint that I've had about the skates is that the stock footbed is thin and flimsy. I can feel the tops of the rivets through them sometimes, and that's uncomfortable.

What kind of pain were you feeling?

Did you try using them more than just the once, perhaps lacing (or tightening them) differently?

I do keep my laces fairly loose, and skip the top eyelet, for what it's worth.

[Gummer12 134]

I'm still in my 7000's thankfully, but when looking at them at WF the other year, I didn't feel like it would be a skate for me, cuz of that exact reason. Just seemed too narrow, and with the taller steel/cowling putting too much strain on the foot while in that wider stance the skate is designed for I knew I'd have that foot pain. I haven't heard too many other complaints from any of the other goalies I know who have any of the variants, but I'll keep my ear open and see what they have to say.

[Law Goalie 147]

That's an interesting point, wex. It might not be a problem with the boot, but with the new angles and forces generated by a revolutionary cowling, especially for goalies who grew up on more traditional skates skates.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but up until very recently, Lundqvist wore Graf 750s. While Grafs do have unusually short blades and profiles, the cowlings themselves are relatively low to the ice, and, being more than a little clunky, distribute weight fairly widely under the foot, as do the relatively soft and thick outsole and insole. The older Bauer Tuuk cowlings are a little more lean and mean underfoot, but they're nothing like the radical departure of the new Vertex cowling. (I'm using Vertex as a catch-all to refer to the whole line of One100/80/60 line of cowlings, even though, technically, only the ones with the cut-out and composite insert at the first metatarsal are labelled "Vertex.")

Personally, even with my player skates profiled out to the same CAG set Brent Johnson uses on his goalie skates (a happy but accidental correspondence with that sharpening chart that popped up a while back) and using the same boot and insoles (Flexlites and Superfeet grey/yellow) on both, I do find that my feet get a different kind of tired when I'm on player skates. The only remaining differences between my player and goalie skates are the same ones that are the major differences between Bauer's Vertex-based skates and traditional goalie skates: width of the blade and height/angles to the ice. That would confirm, at least apocryphally, that there are sufficiently different stresses involved in skating on traditional cowlings and more radical cowlings to cause some level of discomfort.

[Netminder32 32]

I had several things about them that I didn't like but it seems the primary areas were my mid foot area and front of my ankle. I wore them twice just in case I overlooked something the first time.

The first skate I used the factory foot beds and left the lacing slightly looser than normal (because of the excessively thick tongue, fearing that it would cut off blood circulation). I found that:

1) The boot felt really sloppy on my foot which I accredited to the extra layer of "comfort foam" and what seemed like a large "void" area in the toe box.

2) There seemed to be very limited to no support through the ankle area and I have no idea why. They appear to be similar in boot height to my current skates.

3) The comically long tongues seemed to push down across the front of my ankle when in a crouch which resulted in the tongues actually digging into to the tops of my ankles.

4) I felt like the heel area actually dropped down in the skate resulting in a really wierd strain up the back of my ankle and lower area of my calf muscle and

5) My entire mid foot area was constantly in pain which I initially thought may be a combination of lack of arch support in the flimsy insoles and perhaps cut off blood circulation from the massively thick tongues.

The second time I tried them I swapped out the insoles with my shock doctor insoles from my XXX's and tried to wear the laces a little tighter to offset the excessively "sloppy" feeling the boot had. These two changes made absolutely no difference and after now being in these skates for a total of 4 hours of playing time I couldn't bear the pain any longer. I sure wasn't wearing 'em a third time.

Wex and Law bring up an excellent point which makes a lot of sense and might just be the answer. With the excessively tall cowlings and wierd angles you are transferring a lot more strain to your foot than you would with a shorter cowling and the vast amount of that strain would transfer right across the entire mid section of your foot. I think you guys are onto something...

[Justin Liedloff 13]

So, let me get this straight. You only wore the skates TWICE? WTF did you expect? Did you expect that, because they were baked and profiled and blah blah blah, that there wouldn't be a break in period? Seriously??!?! To go on to post that there must be a problem with the skate, because they didn't fit you right out of the box is a bit overboard.

For the record, I have Bauer 5000 skates, from when they were top of the line. I didn't bake them, and it took me almost 6 months to get them 100% comfortable. During that time, I played with no feeling in my feet. But, you know what, I dealt with it, because I know that breaking in a pair of skates doesn't happen overnight, and it certainly doesn't happen as a result of some easy bake oven.

[Netminder32 32]

Wow... thank you for your keen insight. And since this is the first pair of skates I've ever owned you must be right...

I must have forgotten to mention "unbearable" foot pain. I'm glad that you straightened me out on that. So, I should just suck it up and tolerate if for 6 months. Since you have obviously tried "these" skates and decided for us all that there is no problem.

[Justin Liedloff 13]

I'm not saying they didn't hurt. What I am saying is that 2x on the ice is hardly enough time to determine that there is an inherent flaw in the design. It certainly isn't enough time to get them even remotely broken in. And even get me started on taking a $470 loss by selling them on eBay.

Perhaps giving them a few more ice sessions would have been beneficial. It certainly would have helped justify your claim that there is a problem with the way the skate is designed. This is a classic example of why this board requires extended use of a product before a review can be posted.

[Netminder32 32]

I'm not reviewing this product. I was simply observing and adding my experience to a trend that is forming. When a pro player has to leave a game because of pain caused by a new product, then other goalies start posting about their problems, then I have the same problem, there might be a trend forming. Which is why I stated what problems I was having and asked if any other MSH members were experiencing a similar problem. We might be onto something that could potentially save others from making a costly mistake by buying these skates without having "all" the information about a product available to them. Isn't that what this board is here for? So people in the hockey community can share their experiences good/bad/or otherwise...

[Axxion89 32]

If you experience severe pain in a skate after two uses, that's suffice for me to say it does not fit well or has a problem. If a skate fits you proper, break in pain will hurt but is generally bearable. Netminder32 has been here long enough and reviewed plenty of product to know whats going on with Goalie gear and the fact that others, including a world class goalie, have had skate pain with this skate does tell something and is worthy of posting. If anything, this thread will get others to think more about the issue and keep their eyes and ears open for more potential problems with the skate.

Personally speaking, I tried on the one series of skates and did not like them due to their fit and the cowling. I would like to see Bauer expand their goalie skate line as I like their products but the choices in skates are very limited.

[Law Goalie 147]

I don't think it's fair to call this a problem per se. It's the same trade-off that every equipment manufacturer makes between tradition and development: come up with something radical, and you're bound to alienate some traditionalists.

Naturally I don't think it's reasonable that any goalie should endure unbearable pain (or bear unendurable pain). However, Justin makes two fair points: that it might have been possible to acclimate to the skate over time, and that a small subset of goalies with problems, no matter how eminent or experienced, does not mean there is an inherent design flaw.

For each goalie, it's a question of whether the potential advantages outweigh the immediate discomfort. For the company, it's whether a potentially game-changing design is worth a few people who, for whatever reason, can't go with it.

I can say that my experience with an even more extreme and experimental cowling design that shared many of the Vertex's attributes was definitely tricky, but extremely rewarding. Much as with player skates, I did feel a little uncomfortable in balance, and their was a little discomfort, but the advantages of increased available angles to the ice were remarkable.

One of the other 'problems' with the Vertex cowling on the One100 and One80 is supposedly that the edges of the cut-out can catch on the ice. While it's certainly possible that this could happen, I would submit that the goalies who are experiencing this share a common technical issue: putting too much weight on the medial edges of their cowlings, whether leading in save-movement or dragging their feet in skating and butterfly movement, in a way that catches this edge. Of course we would want to say that Bauer should have a design that didn't catch at all - ie. the One60 - but that gives up a certain range of movement. Like everything else, it's a compromise: adapt and gain the advantage, or don't.

[Justin Liedloff 13]

When a pro player has to leave a game because of pain caused by a new product, then other goalies start posting about their problems, then I have the same problem, there might be a trend forming.

Do you really believe that said "pro player" never used these skates before? Like he took them out of the box for the first time right before a game? C'mon, really? If, and that's a huge if, there was a "problem" with the skate, they never would have made it out of the locker room for a practice, let alone into a game situation.

I'm glad Law was able to see my point. The skates didn't work for you, which I still contend 2 ice sessions are hardly enough time to determine. But hey, you're a big boy, and you want to piss money away, be my guest. In the end, my only problem is that you are basically trashing a product after only using it a couple times, which I hardly think is fair, to MSH, the goalie community, and the manufacturer.

[Law Goalie 147]

For what it's worth, Lundqvist is back in One100s with a Vertex cowling in this afternoon's game.

Whether that means he's found a solution or just decided to go with them anyway, who knows. There's a lot that *might* have changed under the hood (ie. out of ready view) like the tongue, insole, blade width from 3mm to 4mm (from the One100 Vertex cowling to the One80), the profile, some modification to the boot itself (punching, stretching, etc.), or a newly lasted boot altogether.

[jimmy 194]

The vertex cowling should definitely be redesigned, I cant tell you how many of my customers have worn through to the foot. Bad design there. Bauer hasn't had good luck with their cowlings, especially the clear-blue plastic one, what were they thinking? I think we'll see a new vertex next year. Good concept, just bad design.

[forbs02 20]

For what it's worth, Lundqvist is back in One100s with a Vertex cowling in this afternoon's game.

Whether that means he's found a solution or just decided to go with them anyway, who knows. There's a lot that *might* have changed under the hood (ie. out of ready view) like the tongue, insole, blade width from 3mm to 4mm (from the One100 Vertex cowling to the One80), the profile, some modification to the boot itself (punching, stretching, etc.), or a newly lasted boot altogether.

I was going to suggest checking the blade width. I'd imagine going from the traditional width blade to the 3mm can throw a whole bunch of things out of whack in your mechanics and might contribute to the pain.

[andre81 0]

players know what they like or dont like... im sure everyone of us has had a piece of equipment we hated, right away and never wanted to use again... why not post what you dislike about something to warn others about it.... i know i would

[Gummer12 134]

While true that expressing you likes/dislikes about a certain product can be beneficial to others, on the other hand, what You like, I might hate and Vice Versa. As long as you keep this in mind when evaluating/reviewing products online, the complaints just add to healthy discussion.