Pronation Questions

[kklinder 0]

I know this type of thing has been discussed in many places, but I can't efficiently find answers to all of my questions.

I have what I'm realizing is a pretty severe pronation, especially with my left leg. In fact, it's combined with my feet pointing out (is this normal for pronated legs?). So, I'm having a lot of trouble getting over my left foot. A LHS just shimmed both heels. It seemed to make a nice difference in my right skate, but the left is not right yet. It may need more of a shim, but I've got a few questions:

• What are the pros and cons of shimming the holder? Does it mess up sharpening by changing the angle of the holder?
  
• Might I be better off with custom insoles?
  
• Will new insoles help with realigning the feet, or do I need to realign the holders?
  
• How good are the Graf custom, heat moldable insoles for my issues? Does anybody know anyone anywhere near NYC that does these?
  
• Are there any exercises that can help correct these issues?
  

FYI, these are Graf skates. Thanks in advance.

[Jordan 13]

If you have that much pronation; you should investigate prescription orthotics.

Find someone who works with figure skaters in your area; most likely a podiatrist. You will probably not require shimming after getting orthotics as they should put your boot in a neutral position.

[th6252 25]

jordan's advice is likely the better way to go. but if you're still interested, there's only 2 places in the area that i'm aware of that do the graf custom insoles. they are plaza sports out towards the hamptons and westside stick and skate in manhattan.

[kklinder 0]

jordan's advice is likely the better way to go. but if you're still interested, there's only 2 places in the area that i'm aware of that do the graf custom insoles. they are plaza sports out towards the hamptons and westside stick and skate in manhattan.

I know both of those places. Thanks for the heads up...I didn't know either place did them.

I will definitely go custom orthotics if I have to, but I'm figuring there have to be exercises I can do to help the problem. I'll be researching it more. Also, there's something that just seems wrong about shimming the holders.

[kklinder 0]

Below is some info I found about exercises. Reading about the issues that accompany pronation, I find I have quite a bit of them.

Pronation info and exercise description

[iceburg19 1]

you can talk to Joey Ferraro at the Rocky Point Plaza store,he is a Graf Rep.

[Law Goalie 147]

From what I understand, asymmetrical shimming (that is, of one skate more or less than the other, or of one side of the skate more or less than the other) should only be used to correct leg-length discrepancies (which are fairly common, but very minor), or pronation problems in one foot that persist in spite of orthotics. I can't see how symmetrical shimming (eg. of both heels, as your LHS did) would do anything for your problem.

The Graf custom insoles *can* be good for this, but you have to be extremely careful about how they're made. If you just hop on the machine and have them made weighted, they will reflect rather than correct your pronation. If they're done semi-weighted - that is, with you seated, applying moderate downward pressure that is corrected by a tech - they can support your feet. They will not, however, do this as well as a proper custom orthotic.

[Jordan 13]

What Law Goalie says is correct. That's why I recommended a podiatrist that works with figure skaters. Figure skaters use their outside edges more than hockey players, so a neutral alignment is critical for them.

FWIW, my daughter, who is a competitive figure skater, had a coach suggest that she investigate orthotics due to pronation. This caused her to have difficulty with certain maneuvers involving the outside edge.

We found a podiatrist that specializes in sports medicine and works with a number of high profile athletes. After seeing how the orthotics addressed her alignment issues I wouldn't consider any other method.

Now, once you have the orthotics, you may need a deeper boot than you would have prior.

[kklinder 0]

From what I understand, asymmetrical shimming (that is, of one skate more or less than the other, or of one side of the skate more or less than the other) should only be used to correct leg-length discrepancies (which are fairly common, but very minor), or pronation problems in one foot that persist in spite of orthotics. I can't see how symmetrical shimming (eg. of both heels, as your LHS did) would do anything for your problem.

The Graf custom insoles *can* be good for this, but you have to be extremely careful about how they're made. If you just hop on the machine and have them made weighted, they will reflect rather than correct your pronation. If they're done semi-weighted - that is, with you seated, applying moderate downward pressure that is corrected by a tech - they can support your feet. They will not, however, do this as well as a proper custom orthotic.

He did shimming on both because he saw pronation on both. However, the left side has severe spaying that he didn't correct. Now, after seeing it more clearly, he wants to realign the holders. No thanks. It makes sense to me to address the root issue. I'll go with orthotics if exercises don't work, but I'd rather get my body right than put a band-aid on it.

As I've looked into this more and thought about it more, I've come to suspect that a vast majority of ankle and alignment problems reported around here have to do with pronation and supination, not the skates themselves. If exercises might correct, why not try them?

Thanks for the great info about the custom insoles.

[Jordan 13]

If exercises might correct, why not try them?

Nothing wrong with trying exercise; but, don't get your hopes up too high. Usually the source of the problem is skeletal alignment, for example, being knock-kneed or bow-legged. Exercise won't change that, though it might increase your tolerance to the condition and perhaps mitigate pain.

Good luck.

[Law Goalie 147]

Definitely do the exercises; if you're diligent about them, they can make a huge difference.

I'd start the exercises immediately, look into the orthotics (health plan might cover it), and only if those fail to entirely correct the issue is it really worth looking into holder alignment or shimming. Wearing orthotics regularly in and out of skates will definitely complement the exercises.

[kklinder 0]

Definitely do the exercises; if you're diligent about them, they can make a huge difference.

I'd start the exercises immediately, look into the orthotics (health plan might cover it), and only if those fail to entirely correct the issue is it really worth looking into holder alignment or shimming. Wearing orthotics regularly in and out of skates will definitely complement the exercises.

I've been at the exercises for a couple days now - every minute I can - and they are already helping.

Jordan, I've got to disagree, bro. There's a whole field - chiropractic - that deals, in good measure, with addressing skeletal issues. Most of these issues have little to do (at least early on) with bones themselves, but, instead, relate to muscles, tendons, and ligaments. In fact, it's great success with addressing severe lower back problems through chiropractic adjustment, specific exercises prescribed by the chiropractor (he's also a licensed bio-mechanical engineer), and acupuncture that led me to think about exercises to correct the pronation. I will say this, though: the more severe the issue, the greater the number of muscles (and deeper muscles), tendons, and ligaments that are likely involved. So, working these issues out requires more intense commitment.

Anybody who has pronation issues, I highly recommend the exercise shown in the video above.

You guys have been great; I appreciate all of the thoughts.

[Jordan 13]

Not saying that exercises won't help. Just that there isn't an exercise in the world that will change a ligament - well unless you damage it. If you are saying that exercises will change the bone to bone connections, and thus change the alignment of the joints, it will not. You simply can't make a bow legged man, straight legged through exercise.

It can increase the strength of the muscles that support the joints and support the joint in an improved fashion throughout the range of movement, don't expect miracles. ;)