Misaligned Holders

[aal 3]

Anyone know why manufacturers apparently haven't figured out how to make sure the holders are exactly aligned? It seems like it would be a simple process to make sure the holders were aligned. Having said that, I've got a pair of Grafs with one skate holder that I think is a little off, but from the minimal time I've spent in the skates so far I don't really notice any problem. Given how common it apparently is for holders to be a little off, it seems like a lot of people are staking on skates with "off" holders, without any problem. How far off does a holder have to be before its really a problem?

[joshy207 15]

Not very far off. It's like having uneven edges on your sharpening... you can still skate on them, but you won't be as good. If the holder and steel are bent enough, it could lead to blade breakage or some pretty bad wipeouts when you turn hard a certain way.

I think there are 2 factors in having so many blades mismounted... overseas production (generally poorer QC) and the use of composite outsoles. The old soft, white outsoles (TPR) were more forgiving. You could move the holder slightly to line up your next hole and rivet. Composite outsoles don't allow that margin of error. If a hole is drilled out of line, the blade and holder will bend.

[JR Boucicaut 3810]

...but...Graf uses a laser-guided alignment system that ensures that holders are not mismounted.

Seriously, they do. Can't figure out why they still come out that way though.

[aal 3]

As for my skates, one looks misaligned in that the centerline of the holder appears off from the centerline of the composite sole, but only at the rear of the skate.

[Stacey 0]

Well, I think part of the problem lies within how many skates the workers have to go through in a given day, they don't have the time to ensure all skates are aligned perfectly centre. With that being said, Graf has a supposed laser guided system but anyone whose dealt with their skates knows how well that system is working for them...

As to how much it takes for you to notice a change in your skating...the honest truth is not so much. I would say a good 90% of hockey players/skaters need a custom alignment to align the holder to their specific gait, whether it be 1 or 3 mm offset from the theoretical centre of the boot. Perhaps the misaligned holder in your case has worked to your advantage?

Joshy, poor QC in overseas production has become a myth, more often than not, they are on par with NA production, sometimes even surpassing....Vapor XXXX are made overseas and we've heard very little about misaligned holders.

[aal 3]

My vapor xxv's looked right on. If the grafs didn't fit me better than anything else, I'd be wearing something else. I just don't think their quality control is really as good as bauer / ccm (and probably others), their skates are heavier than other brands, and they're more expensive. They just fit so good.

[Stacey 0]

The different fits they offer is about the only thing they got right ;)

[Rustpot 1]

The different fits they offer is about the only thing they got right ;)

More like the only thing keeping them in business. If they didn't offer so many specialty fits they would have gone under YEARS ago.

My Vectors from ~3 years ago were pretty bad. I noticed my left skate wobbling and I couldn't hold the outside edge at all. The holder and steel were bowed pretty bad--left ) | right--. LHS remounted the holder but the damage was done, new steel was put in after they snapped the one runner trying to true it back up, still has a slight bend and the shop doesn't want to widen the holes again, I'd have to switch holders. I'm switching skates now though, so my troubles with those is hopefully over.

[epstud74 24]

...but...Graf uses a laser-guided alignment system that ensures that holders are not mismounted.

Seriously, they do. Can't figure out why they still come out that way though.

Maybe one should look at the people who calibrate these laser systems and quality control involved. Seriously, the board at Graf Canada needs to sit down and rethink their business practices and let some people go. How many of you think people are doing their job up in Calgary? I love Graf skates just as much as anyone else, but it is becoming painfully apparent that something is lacking quality and service-wise.

[SolarWind 23]

I hear that it's quite common now days to have some slight mis-alignment in holders, but unless it's more then 3 mm it shouldn't be affecting performance that much?

[homerocks 0]

Vapor XXXX are made overseas and we've heard very little about misaligned holders.

Well that's nice to hear. I had a custom pair made in which both holders were well misaligned straight out of nbh in Canada. :(

[aal 3]

I remember talking to one LHS guy a number of years ago about misaligned holders, and I think it was specifically in relation to Graf. He told me that even though the blades might look misaligned, they were actually aligned. I think he said something about being aligned in relation to the boot, as opposed to the outsole. It didn't make much sense to me then and it still doesn't, but maybe there's something more to it.

[joshy207 15]

There are different ways a blade can be misaligned, too. It can be too far inside or outside (not centered), too far back or forward on the boot, or not perfectly straight (bent blades).

The issues I was referring to are bent blades right out of the box, caused by improper drilling and riveting.

[defence18 1]

I remember talking to one LHS guy a number of years ago about misaligned holders, and I think it was specifically in relation to Graf. He told me that even though the blades might look misaligned, they were actually aligned. I think he said something about being aligned in relation to the boot, as opposed to the outsole. It didn't make much sense to me then and it still doesn't, but maybe there's something more to it.

This is 100% accurate. Most of the misaligned holders I see are due to improper boot manufacturing. The center of the outsole is not aligned with the center of the inner sole, and thus, not aligned properly with the foot. Therefore, it is nearly impossible to line the holder up dead center simply by looking at the outsole. I've seen it with all companies. And don't think that this is uniquely a hockey problem. It is prevalent in figure skates as well. Any marking on the skates, whether it be on the heel on the outsole to indicate center or the front seam on a figure skate cannot be relied upon as being true. As for how much it has to be off for you to notice, that really depends on the skater. Some people are more sensitive to it than others.

[sk8z27 0]

...but...Graf uses a laser-guided alignment system that ensures that holders are not mismounted.

Seriously, they do. Can't figure out why they still come out that way though.

Maybe one should look at the people who calibrate these laser systems and quality control involved. Seriously, the board at Graf Canada needs to sit down and rethink their business practices and let some people go. How many of you think people are doing their job up in Calgary? I love Graf skates just as much as anyone else, but it is becoming painfully apparent that something is lacking quality and service-wise.

I agree with Graf's quality control and customer service lacking. I used to wear Graf 703's about 15 years ago, but have not had much luck with pruchasing new Grafs. I ordered one pair online that were easily defective. It led me to actually flying to Canada to purchase a pair so I could physically see what I was getting. I wear the narrow model, which nobody carries in my area. I work for the airlines, so flying there is not a big deal. I love the fit of the Graf skates, but whether or not you get a good pair is a crapshoot. I also have a friend that works at a large hockey store, which also does online sales and he see's a lot of Graf's come back for this or that. How can you sell a pair of skates where the holder is about an 1/8" off the back of the outsole. It may not affect anything, but it just looks like crap. With that said, I still like GRAF skates. It seems as if they are surviving off their reputation from their European counterpart. I hope they straighten out quality control because I would hate to see them have a bad reputation, which I believe they are getting if they keep putting out subpar skates.

[rjmurp01 0]

I've recently run into this problem with a new pair of Vector U+. I was pretty disappointed to see that one of the holders is misaligned. The back rivets appear to be ok, but the front ones look to be drilled too far to the inside edge of the skate. The holder is probably only 1-2 mm off, but when compared to the other one, it seems very noticeable.

My question is, what would you all do? Would you attempt to exchange them with the manufacturer or just deal with it? I am anxious to use the skates, but I want them to be right. I really don't want to get into a long and drawn-out process with CCM - especially since I don't have a receipt for them (gift.) Maybe I could try them out, and if it is really bad I could call CCM.